depressing reality relevant to our fetish

vk · November 25th, 2012, 16:06

The important issue with men/women strength comparison is that women are generally smaller in size. A better comparison can be made by compensating the strength with the size.

Let’s assume that an average woman (A) carries an average man (B) and then this average man carries a large man (C). Common sense tells us that (B) will have harder time than (A). But let’s look at it more precisely.

At this point we consider that (A) (B) and (C) are similarly shaped, neither thin nor fat, just average. Said in other terms, (B) just looks as a reduction of (C). Also (A) looks as reduction of (B) except that she is a female.

Now let’s go further and assume that (B) is 1,15 times taller than (A) and that (C) is 1,15 times taller than (B). For instance (A) is 150 cm, (B) is 1,15 x 150 cm = 172 cm and (C) is 1,15 x 1,15 x 150 cm = 198 cm.

Now let’s compare the strength of (A) (B) (C), assuming that each of them has reasonable capacities compared to their sizes. Strength depends on the number of fibers in muscle sections so it can be calculated as a surface. For instance if (A) has 1000 fibers (B) will have 1,15 x 1,15 x 1000 = 1322 fibers and (C) will have 1,15 x 1,15 x 1,5 x 1,5 x 1000 = 1749 fibers (or maybe 1000 fibers but each of them 1,749 times larger in section).

How about weights now? Weight can be compared with a volume so here we go : (A) is 40 kg, (B) is 1,15 x 1,15 x 1,15 x 40 = 60,8 kg and (C) is 1,15 x 1,15 x 1,15 x 1,15 x 1,15 x 1,15 x 40 = 92,5 kg.

Now (A) has got 1000 fibers to hold 60,8 kg which means an effort of 60,8 grams per fiber. As for (B) he has got 1322 fibers to hold 92,5 kg which means 73,7 grams per fiber. So definitely the task is easier for (A).

That’s why your girl friends can carry you so easily: scalability, the old Galileo’s trick. Ants also know that. An ant can carry the weight of 50 ants. But an elephant will never carry the weight of 50 elephants.

fa · December 3rd, 2012, 14:46

Hi as everybody can see i am a huge fan of lift & carry

but i find it very hard to approach ladies regarding sessions

due to my cerebral palsy

please can you advise me

on how to do this

ramonra · December 8th, 2012, 00:54

This is an issue I have investigated quite a bit. I must say that both winniethebeer and vk got their numbers almost right. It is certainly a very interesting issue for a L&C fan (at least it is for me, hehe).

When I was 18 yo I had a friend, a 17 yo girl who used to piggyback me every now and then (good old times...). She was 50 kg and I was 69 kg at the time. I used to fantasize about how heavy a person should be if I wanted to lift a person doing the same effort as my friend. I did my calculations just based on weight proportions, but that's not how it works.
As vk said, smaller people are able to lift proportionally to their weight more weight than the bigger people. You can check the marks of the professional weightlifters, those support these facts.

On the other hand, investigating the differences between male and female strength I found a paper, a study from the US Army that was comparing female and male strenght and athletic in different situations (trained and untrained soldiers, etc). It was very technical but quite a find for me. There was some dispersion of the values (gaussian distribution of strenght) and of course some overlap: the strongest girls were stronger than the weakest men.
I also remember that men had much stronger upper body strength and still stronger lower body strength even at the same weight. However, this is true in part because women have less muscle per kg than men, they have usually more body fat.

I agree with Slevin that these facts are not depressing, it's not that hard for an average woman to lift an average man. I'm not an athletic guy, not big and not very strong but I can piggyback guys much bigger than me. I know I'm certainly stronger than most girls, to me it's very easy to carry someone that weights the same as me.
There is this general misconception that an average person should not be able to carry someone heavier, but that's just not true: an average man is more than able to do that and most average women are capable of that as well.

There is a huge difference in being able to piggyback someone for 30 seconds and to lift someone over your head, of course.

In my experience, a physically active girl (I'm not saying an athlete, just someone who practice some kind of sport regularly or just goes to the gym 2 or 3 times a week) is very capable of carrying a man up to 80 kg, even 90. Of course, I'm talking about easy lifts and not for long time. Some tall or bigger girls are extremely strong and can do more than that, but they are the exception, not the norm. Also, there are a good number of girls that aren't capable of lifting anyone bigger than them. I've experienced this, many girls have not been able to piggyback me weighting between 75 and 82 kg (depending on the year...)

Another thing regarding strenght, it depends mainly on three factors:
- Density of muscular fibers in a cross section of the muscle. You can build more fibers with training and proper nutrition.
- Ability of these fibers (to elongate, etc), this can be improved with training as well.
- A neurological factor that implies somehow the coordination of all the fibers to perform the same movement at the same time. This is usually genetic but training may improve.

I can't remember where I read those factors exactly, but they explain why people that don't look strong are really strong and other people that may look stronger aren't that strong.

To summarize, in my experience asking girls to lift, and taking into account that I don't like big girls:
- Most (if not all) physically active girls can carry an average man (75-85 kg) with no much trouble, performing easy lifts for not a very long time. A few (very sportive or just naturally strong) can perform hard lifts or do long lifts.
- A few physically active girls have a hard time lifting an average man. Those usually just engage in not very demanding sports.
- Some not sportive girls are capable of lifting men with relative ease. I would say about 20%. The rest, usually struggle a lot or are just not capable.

There are of course other factors, as someone said if a girl really wants to lift you she may overcome her physical limitations (to an extent...). I have also noticed some girls faking their inabiliity to lift me, maybe because they don't wanted to look "masculine" or it seemed weird to them... who knows.

Sorry for this long rant, I could talk about this for hours, hehe you know this is not the typical topic you talk about with your friends in a bar (at least not for some time without getting it weird).

December 3rd, 2012, 14:46	#2
fa STANDARD Join Date: May 2010 Location: johannesburg South africa Posts: 34 : 0 For This Post 5 Total	please can somebody advise me Hi as everybody can see i am a huge fan of lift & carry but i find it very hard to approach ladies regarding sessions due to my cerebral palsy please can you advise me on how to do this

November 25th, 2012, 16:06	#1
vk Administrator Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 626 : 3 For This Post 141 Total	The important issue with men/women strength comparison is that women are generally smaller in size. A better comparison can be made by compensating the strength with the size. Let’s assume that an average woman (A) carries an average man (B) and then this average man carries a large man (C). Common sense tells us that (B) will have harder time than (A). But let’s look at it more precisely. At this point we consider that (A) (B) and (C) are similarly shaped, neither thin nor fat, just average. Said in other terms, (B) just looks as a reduction of (C). Also (A) looks as reduction of (B) except that she is a female. Now let’s go further and assume that (B) is 1,15 times taller than (A) and that (C) is 1,15 times taller than (B). For instance (A) is 150 cm, (B) is 1,15 x 150 cm = 172 cm and (C) is 1,15 x 1,15 x 150 cm = 198 cm. Now let’s compare the strength of (A) (B) (C), assuming that each of them has reasonable capacities compared to their sizes. Strength depends on the number of fibers in muscle sections so it can be calculated as a surface. For instance if (A) has 1000 fibers (B) will have 1,15 x 1,15 x 1000 = 1322 fibers and (C) will have 1,15 x 1,15 x 1,5 x 1,5 x 1000 = 1749 fibers (or maybe 1000 fibers but each of them 1,749 times larger in section). How about weights now? Weight can be compared with a volume so here we go : (A) is 40 kg, (B) is 1,15 x 1,15 x 1,15 x 40 = 60,8 kg and (C) is 1,15 x 1,15 x 1,15 x 1,15 x 1,15 x 1,15 x 40 = 92,5 kg. Now (A) has got 1000 fibers to hold 60,8 kg which means an effort of 60,8 grams per fiber. As for (B) he has got 1322 fibers to hold 92,5 kg which means 73,7 grams per fiber. So definitely the task is easier for (A). That’s why your girl friends can carry you so easily: scalability, the old Galileo’s trick. Ants also know that. An ant can carry the weight of 50 ants. But an elephant will never carry the weight of 50 elephants.

December 8th, 2012, 00:54	#3
ramonra VIP Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: 185cm / 80 kg Posts: 131 : 5 For This Post 170 Total	This is an issue I have investigated quite a bit. I must say that both winniethebeer and vk got their numbers almost right. It is certainly a very interesting issue for a L&C fan (at least it is for me, hehe). When I was 18 yo I had a friend, a 17 yo girl who used to piggyback me every now and then (good old times...). She was 50 kg and I was 69 kg at the time. I used to fantasize about how heavy a person should be if I wanted to lift a person doing the same effort as my friend. I did my calculations just based on weight proportions, but that's not how it works. As vk said, smaller people are able to lift proportionally to their weight more weight than the bigger people. You can check the marks of the professional weightlifters, those support these facts. On the other hand, investigating the differences between male and female strength I found a paper, a study from the US Army that was comparing female and male strenght and athletic in different situations (trained and untrained soldiers, etc). It was very technical but quite a find for me. There was some dispersion of the values (gaussian distribution of strenght) and of course some overlap: the strongest girls were stronger than the weakest men. I also remember that men had much stronger upper body strength and still stronger lower body strength even at the same weight. However, this is true in part because women have less muscle per kg than men, they have usually more body fat. I agree with Slevin that these facts are not depressing, it's not that hard for an average woman to lift an average man. I'm not an athletic guy, not big and not very strong but I can piggyback guys much bigger than me. I know I'm certainly stronger than most girls, to me it's very easy to carry someone that weights the same as me. There is this general misconception that an average person should not be able to carry someone heavier, but that's just not true: an average man is more than able to do that and most average women are capable of that as well. There is a huge difference in being able to piggyback someone for 30 seconds and to lift someone over your head, of course. In my experience, a physically active girl (I'm not saying an athlete, just someone who practice some kind of sport regularly or just goes to the gym 2 or 3 times a week) is very capable of carrying a man up to 80 kg, even 90. Of course, I'm talking about easy lifts and not for long time. Some tall or bigger girls are extremely strong and can do more than that, but they are the exception, not the norm. Also, there are a good number of girls that aren't capable of lifting anyone bigger than them. I've experienced this, many girls have not been able to piggyback me weighting between 75 and 82 kg (depending on the year...) Another thing regarding strenght, it depends mainly on three factors: - Density of muscular fibers in a cross section of the muscle. You can build more fibers with training and proper nutrition. - Ability of these fibers (to elongate, etc), this can be improved with training as well. - A neurological factor that implies somehow the coordination of all the fibers to perform the same movement at the same time. This is usually genetic but training may improve. I can't remember where I read those factors exactly, but they explain why people that don't look strong are really strong and other people that may look stronger aren't that strong. To summarize, in my experience asking girls to lift, and taking into account that I don't like big girls: - Most (if not all) physically active girls can carry an average man (75-85 kg) with no much trouble, performing easy lifts for not a very long time. A few (very sportive or just naturally strong) can perform hard lifts or do long lifts. - A few physically active girls have a hard time lifting an average man. Those usually just engage in not very demanding sports. - Some not sportive girls are capable of lifting men with relative ease. I would say about 20%. The rest, usually struggle a lot or are just not capable. There are of course other factors, as someone said if a girl really wants to lift you she may overcome her physical limitations (to an extent...). I have also noticed some girls faking their inabiliity to lift me, maybe because they don't wanted to look "masculine" or it seemed weird to them... who knows. Sorry for this long rant, I could talk about this for hours, hehe you know this is not the typical topic you talk about with your friends in a bar (at least not for some time without getting it weird).